Gmail is an email service. Like the fediverse, email is federated.
By changing your email provider, do you really lose anything? You can still contact your friends, contacts and even various customer suports. You also can recieve emails from popular social media apps. If you degoogle from atleast one Google app, maybe Gmail could be the easiest and least life changing one.
While, Youtube could easilly be one of the most difficult to degoogle from. Not like literally but emotionally. Like deep down you know you can find mostly all you might need on something like Peertube but not all the entertainment media like on Youtube. You will also become a social outcast if peertube is the only app you use. You might not understand channels people mention in day to day talk from youtube or references.
If you use exclusively fediverse apps and sites, Chrome could be almost just as easy to replace as gmail, longterm. However If you use Youtube it won’t surprise me that Youtube downgrades your performance and user experience in what ever means neccesary on competing browsers.
Completely disagree.
I’ve had my Gmail for so long, I literally would not be able to dump it. Records, logins, accounts etc., all tied to my Gmail.
My phone, government accounts, lawyers, medical and tax are all tied to that account. It’s more than just sending a new email address for friends to contact you with.
On the other hand, YouTube is…social media? You don’t have to watch videos on line. I think I’ve used my YouTube account 5 times in my life, and I’m not a social pariah.
To be honest, it’s probably a generational thing. No one I know really uses YouTube, and they all have their life tied to their Gmail account.
If you have a deep history with gmail then that could make it harder to to replace. It’s very true especially if from important positions you participated in, along with multiple accounts on it which I like to call leaving eggs all in one basket since they are all reliant on that account.
For people who arent quiet as invested in that, and just use it casually which is a pretty big percent could easily replace gmail with nothing to lose and those are the type of users I was thinking about when writing up this post. But I can agree with what you are saying here and that you have a good point.
I can see it from both sides. My gmail accounts (regular and throwaway) were roughly my fourth generation email addresses. I got my first email address in 1990. It was tied directly to an educational institution. When I switched institutions, I switched email addresses, and around that time got an ISP email address as well. Non-educational emails went to my ISP address and anything educational related went to my new edu address; everyone in edu circles knew to switch addresses because my .plan file associated with my old account advised them it was closed and what my new one was.
Eventually, I realized that neither my ISP nor edu institution would be with me forever, so I switched everything over to an email redirect service with Yahoo and Hotmail throwaway addresses for stuff that needed an account that was neither professional nor personal.
Then along came Google, Yahoo imploded, Hotmail got bought by Microsoft, and my email redirect service went out of business as the dot com bubble burst.
Oh, and I changed jobs which required moving which meant switching ISPs.
So GMail was a lifeline because I set all my other accounts to both forward to gmail AND set autoresponders informing the sender of my new address.
Of course, that happened 19 years ago. Back then, there were no SMS authentications, no real life accounts tied irrevocably to an email address. My eBay and PayPal accounts just needed an address update, and pretty much everyone else hadn’t got to the point where email address was even an option on a registration form.
That said, I recently did some email address shuffling, and all the accounts that really matter got switched relatively painlessly; I have a password manager, and part of changing addresses involves going through every entry in my password manager (which is already helpfully divided into personal, professional and throwaway) to update addresses as appropriate.
Everyone else gets the same autorespond and redirect treatment for a year. After that, anyone I’ve missed will have to locate me via someone else.
Of course, I’ve also maintained a PGP key since 1993 that has my chain of email addresses associated with it, so anyone who knows my key can just look up my current email address. It’s really the only thing I use that key for anymore. But there’s a very limited set of people that would even think to look me up by PGP, or even save a copy of my public key and remember the key exchange I use.
I had a similar history but I went through the process anyway. Got my own domain and used Fastmail for hosting. I like their masked email address feature. It’s taken months but I went through one by one and changed all my important email addresses. There are a few that can’t be changed though, and some services that I signed up with using my google account also can’t be changed. It was still worth it. Calendar isn’t a big deal to change either. I forwarded all my email to Fastmail and also subscribed to my google calendars to make the transition easier.
I’ve been using fastmail for a few months now. Besides being a really top-notch replacement for gmail and even adding a few features, it also onboards you by giving you a couple quick fields to fill out and then immediately imports everything you had in gmail. And then it keeps importing it, continuously, as long as you want.
It’s not like i’m paying for gmail, so I’ll keep the account alive as long as I need while I switch all the same accounts and records that you are (validly) mentioning as a barrier. I could actually do most of it in one sweep, if I just searched for my old email address in 1password, but it’s not really that time-sensitive to switch, and in the meantime I get to use fastmail.
Yeah Gmail is the hardest. Just for the sheer amount of logins. Been with it was an invite only beta in like 2005. I got a paid proton account but it’s hard to shake it because I’m constantly needing to log back in with it.
You can configure your Gmail account to forward your emails to Proton. It’s under the “Forwarding” tab in the settings. You need to login once in a while to keep the account alive, but if you use any other Google service that’s easy.
You can configure your Gmail account to forward emails to your new account and then update your contact information gradually. That’s what I did when I moved out years ago and I know it’s still working, because now and then my Gmail account still receives some spam that Google helpfully forwards to me.
I went through switching recently. Anytime you log in somewhere I would change the email of that account, and integrate it i to a password manager while being at it.
Bit by bit you become more independant from Gmail.
As a bonus I also started using a service like AddyMail or SimpleLogin, so that I have different emails for different accounts. Quite easy to use.
Don’t think it’s generational. I’ve had a gmail account for about 15 years, and use youtube a lot, and I’m in my 50s. I watch a lot of repair, will it start, restoration and motorbike videos - there’s some amazing content on there, far better than anything available on my tv. And as an educational tool - need to repair something in your home, or change the brakes on your car? Within seconds you have multiple instructional videos of real people actually showing you how to do that exact thing - the world’s never known such a thing.
Use mail forwarding and a password manager, now it doesn’t matter if your accounts are on an old gmail, you can switch services any time.
Not really achieving a degoogle that way though, they’re still getting all their tracking data
I mean… it’s a process? I have a yahoo and a gmail account and I’ve switched like 95% of my stuff away from them to iCloud at this point. It just takes time and patience. As for logins, grab BitWarden and start using it to store passwords instead. Has the side benefit of letting you generate all randomized passwords as you switch to mail-based logins so theres no password duplication or patterns for anyone to analyze if a few different places lose your account credentials.
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I moved away from gmail this year and have experienced absolutely none of these things.
And you don’t need an account on YouTube to watch content there. NewPipe works just fine for me without an account, so not only do I not get ads, I also get no tracking and still get the content I want.
Changing my email on the dozens of services I use is a giant pain in the butt. I’m planning to ditch my Gmail account, but it’ll involve a transition period where I set up a bunch of forwards so I don’t miss stuff.
The most difficult one for me is Google Docs because I use a lot of Google-specific spreadsheet stuff, like Tiller integration (I don’t use Excel) and stock price lookups.
So other than Google Sheets and Gmail, I honestly don’t use my Google account for anything important.
There is a way to create a Google account with an external email address. If you don’t have anything tied to your Google original account, it could be a way to access Google tools.
I have an account on a site where your email is your username for logging. When I changed my email address for a new one, I had to keep the username being the old email address, it doesn’t make sense…
Docs and Sheets are my real challenges to give up
Yeah, this was my issue when trying to switch to Proton. Even on PopOS, I can sign into my Gmail account and get my email, calendar, cloud storage… They’re just there, in the desktop. Same with my phone. Proton I could get to work with Thunderbird… if I let them run their app in the background. I could subscribe to my calendar on desktop… But can’t add or edit events. Cloud storage access required upload/download from a browser.
It’s the annoyance of switching all my accounts, yes, but it’s also that everything feels disjointed and half-baked compared to Gmail right now. I’ll be checking in on Proton and when they can get 90% there, then I’ll switch.
Search is the easiest to replace. You can, like, replace it by googling superior alternatives like Brave, Kagi, DuckDuckGo, Searx etc
I frequently use DDG for an initial search. When it doesn’t give me good results, I frequently find better ones on Google.
Really? You roll over that fast?
Edit: why don’t you just cut out the middlemen and use Kagi or Brave?
Kinda but not quite, better hope them search resualts are comparable to Google’s, while if I just change sign up on a new email account, and just change my email on all my accounts then boom. Oh the interface might lack some (tbh) unneeded features. If emails send and you can respond then what are you missing exactly? Nothing too major.
Nah bro, all the good ones like Brave and Kagi and DDG don’t have stupid ads and they have many more niceties. Isn’t it true that G often ignores search operators?
To people hesitating, the path is simple and safe:
Create your new email (I’d recommend your own domain but you can also use another provider)
Set up Gmail so that it redirects all mail into your new mailbox.
Start giving your new email and migrate little by little your accounts to the new email.
You will not lose emails sent to your Gmail but you won’t use their UI anymore.
At some point, you will realize nothing but spam ends up on your Gmail and you can close it if you want.
This is the way.
Google Photos is the one i am having biggest problems replacing
Store i can store my images anywhere, but nowhere can I type in the search files “Italy” and see all the images I took in Italy, or “John” and see all the images I have of people called John. Or even just search for “car” and show all images of cars.
I get much more out of my images using that service than any other image storing option i have tried
Check out immich. Not there yet but its getting there.
There’s probably no alternative as polished as that, but it’s not too far off either. You can kinda search like that with photofield (disclaimer: I made it), but many other foss photo libraries also support semantic search by now, LibrePhotos for one.
You can tag images in loads of galleries in the app store
Yeah but google does that automatically on all photos that i chose to host in it. Can’t beat that with manual tags especially not on large amounts of pictures
You will also become a social outcast if peertube is the only app you use. You might not understand channels people mention in day to day talk from youtube or references.
We must be in different generations. The only time my peers ever mention YouTube is when they’re directly sharing a specific video. No one ever talks about following channels.
One look at my spam folder in gmail makes me realize why I wouldn’t leave. I’ve felt Google nailed spam detection.
Fastmail does a great job for me. Spam isn’t a problem with legitimate email providers anymore.
They did not. They bought postini. Before then spam was really, really bad on gmail.
Eh- I mean maybee that could be a reason, but Google has too much power and influence and takes advantage idk if that would be enough for me personally to stay but at the same time I can aknowledge that it could be a good reason to not leave.
Certainly better than Microsoft. Outlook/live/Hotmail spam détections been fucked for the better part of 8 months.
Everyone is pretty good at spam detection these days. Also, this is a reason to have at least 2 email accounts—one you only give to close family and friends and one you use for commercial purposes.
And use throwaway/blockable for anything political too. (Apple has Hide My Email that lets you generate random email addresses linked to your primary that you can block with a click if they start to spam you hard immediately after.)
One look at my old Yahoo and Hotmail determined this was a lie.
Really? I rarely get spam at my Yahoo account that gets past the filter. 🤔
Federation is when two or more distinct networks interact through a common protocol. Email systems are all part of the same store-and-forward model.
You can say that email is federated with newsgroups but email is not federated within itself. A system with multiple instances that use the same implementation is called distributed. Federation means hopping across networks of distributed systems with different implementations.
Example 1: people think that Lemmy is a federated system. On its own it’s not. It’s federated because it interacts with other systems (Mastodon, Kbin etc.) If the others didn’t exist then Lemmy would simply be a distributed system, not federated.
Example 2: Bluesky is not federated even though it’s distributed and technically capable of federation.
You could say that email is federated, there are multiple implementations of mail servers.
YouTube is probably the single website I spend most of my time on, but I only use Firefox. I have some 4 extensions to make it usable, not because google intentionally makes it worse, but because unmodded YouTube sucks. They’re ublock origin, dearrow, yt enhancer and sponsorblock.
only 4?
dearrow is new to me, looks like it’s similar to clickbait remover
Unhook is pretty great and return dislike button too.
Forgot the return dislike btn. Even though I mostly just browse the subscriptions tab, I like having videos recommended though, so I’m not a target for unhook.
Removing recommendations is just a small part of it and you don’t need to have it turned on, I use Unhook mostly for Hide Shorts Tab, Hide End Screen Videowall, Hide End Screen Cards.
these are already covered by enhancer for youtube afaik
Nah, changing email address is the hardest of services. Gmail has been my main address for about 15 years. Every single online account I have uses it, and that’s in the high hundreds. Maybe if you’d used your own domain with gmail when you started you could hop around some, but not so many people do that.
I mean I still have my Gmail account in my mail clients - just every time I get an email on it that’s not spam I go to the account settings and change the mail account there
I haven’t gotten a mail on it in almost a year so I think I’ll unplug it and only login if needed
It’s the hardest to replace.
There’s literally no other service that has a web email client that’s as nice and as feature rich
I need filters, multiple SMTP sending profiles, import from other IMAP accounts, easy account switching, delayed sending, labels. Nobody offers all those feature in a web client.
Maybe zoho mail is the only one that offers a similar interface
If you know an alternative please tell me because my Google one subscription is due to renewal next month and I really want to move away but I can’t find an alternative.
And the Gmail webui isn’t perfect too, mobile viewing sucks with an huge banner “why u no add this Google account to your android phone so we can track your actions better??” That’s on top of the page that can’t be dismissed.
And the “archive” button that doesn’t actually move it in an archive folder but is more “hide this email forever and make it impossible to find it again”
All of this is only relevant if you use the web client. I don’t. I have email accounts both on gmail and on other providers and normally access all of them with Thunderbird and K-9 Mail.
Or as spy-rich
Protonmail. or tutanota are some of the best alternatives.
I have a proton mail account and the interface is nowhere as feature rich. It’s comparable to yahoo mail but definitely can’t replace Gmail.
Not to mention that it doesn’t even support IMAP so on mobile I would be forced to use their app.
Tutanota isn’t based on sogo, which is extremely barebones? Later I might register a free account to have a look
I just get why you would need such an advance interface for a simple emailing service where you just send and respond to emails. If the emails send, shouldn’t the be enough? It’s not like you need a crazy search API like Google’s to even come close to comparison with them. The email experience really isn’t impacted that badly. unless i’m missing something here.
it depends what you use the email. Email notifications from facebook and various spam? Roundcube is absolutely perfect for that.
Work with 100 emails per hour? You must use some advanced client or everything is buried once you go to eat for lunch
it’s not about search at all. In fact, i am forced to use thunderbird to search on gmail because search is completely broken. If you are searching for all the emails that “Matt - username@example.com” sent you, if you search for “matt” or “username” on gmail, you won’t find anything. You have to find “username@example.com”, which is ridiculous
You might not understand channels people mention in day to day talk from youtube or references.
Hahaha jesus nah, the only time I ever hear people mention streamers or youtubers is to go “Who the hell is THAT? they did WHAT to their underage fans?” And then I immediately stop caring about them.
In that case I absolutely would recommend Peertub to you.
Gmail’s easiest to replace if you have your own domain. I moved mine a couple years ago with no issues at all.
There are still various ways to watch YT ad-free and tracking-free. (And you can pay the creators directly on Patreon or through another service, and watch the videos ad-free on Patron. I pay a little more on Patreon than I was paying for YT Premium, but not much more, and I’m happier the creators are getting bigger cut and Google is getting no cut.)
I use FF basically exclusively except for the rare time a site doesn’t work with it. It was also an easy change. Google does degrade their stuff (whether or purpose or through ineptitude) but there are other options for the other main Google services, as well.
The only things I have left on there are photos, contacts, and calendars. Photos will probably be the next to go.
I mean- I dont have a domain, been using proton mail and mail.com for the pass 6 years atleast with no noticable issues on multiple popular sites. Maybe you can explain that further maybe i’m not quiet understanding.
I know that ad free apps exist for Youtube however they probally won’t last long term. Ad blockers right now are the main target of google to rid of. Peertube being its own thing from Youtube and also federated will last longer then most sites trying to compete with Youtube as there are multiple hosts for different smaller sections of the service.
That depends on how many services you have tied to that email address that you would have to change.
I’ll be honest, I don’t even remember.
just use a pop mail account on your own server.
that way you can connect it to gmail and get all your mail there or disconnect it and get it elsewhere and you never have to change emails with anyone else
