Unfortunately the HHS Secretary isn’t empowered to create law, nor are they empowered to interpret law. They can only share opinions, provide guidance, create policy, etc. So no, in this case, you are not quite right.
Further, as the other user pointed out: the hospital would rather be sued by the individual for violating their rights than by the state for violating the law. Regardless of potential precedent or final outcome, one is far, FAR more costly than the other.
As they say, when the punishment is less than the profit, it’s not a punishment, it’s a business expense
Ultimately, laws can only be judged on their ability to create outcomes. This one has failed miserably
And you don’t seem to be listening to people who are telling you that the law doesn’t have to be draconian to cost people their lives.
If some number of hospitals conclude that the cost of letting people die and settling wrongful death cases is lower than the cost of defending patients’ rights to an abortion under their specific circumstances, then those hospitals will set policy that prohibits providing those abortions. Because they are profit-driven, not charities (a separate but related problem)
I will say it again: if the cost is less than the profit, it’s not a punishment, it’s a business expense. Put another way, if actually breaking law A costs less than defending accusations of breaking law B, they will break law A every time.
I’m really tired of trying to explain to people that laws and politics do not exist in a bubble.
A) You hope it will. In the meantime, we continue to see cases of people being in danger or even dying.
B) Good for you that you can hand-wave away other people’s lives and safety as just a temporary bump in the road.
Your callousness is disconcerting, to say the least, and I’m done with this conversation now because I can’t teach you to stop looking at people as statistics.
I’ll come back for one last comment to make this clear:
It is never, EVER acceptable to force someone to use their body to save the life of another. Ever. CORPSES have more rights than that (you have to volunteer to be a donor before death).
You want women to have fewer rights than corpses?
And that’s without even arguing whether a clump of cells that can’t survive on its own is even considered a life.
You can think someone sucks for having an abortion, and we can discuss what happens when a fetus could possible be viable on its own. But bodily autonomy is non-negotiable. If someone says “disconnect me from the thing attached to my body” you fucking do it. End of story. Call them horrible, callous, a sinner, whatever you want. But you do not force people to use their body as an incubator against their will.
“At the time of the discussion, Farmer was medically stable, with some vaginal bleeding that was not heavy.
“Therefore contrary to the most appropriate management based (sic) my medical opinion, due to the legal language of MO law, we are unable to offer induction of labor at this time,” the report quotes the specialist as saying.”
Again, she was stable at the time. The law required that they not perform an abortion.
A political official saying something is not the law. Filling a lawsuit is not the law.
You presented it as a law being broken. The only law broken would have been if doctors performed the abortion early because she voted to make it illegal.
“At risk” isn’t an immediate threat. Having high blood pressure makes you, “at risk.” That’s not the same as having a heart attack which is an immediate threat to your life.
The law only allows abortion under immediate threat.
She wanted an early abortion because it was the safe option. But the law precludes proactive healthcare.
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Unfortunately the HHS Secretary isn’t empowered to create law, nor are they empowered to interpret law. They can only share opinions, provide guidance, create policy, etc. So no, in this case, you are not quite right.
Further, as the other user pointed out: the hospital would rather be sued by the individual for violating their rights than by the state for violating the law. Regardless of potential precedent or final outcome, one is far, FAR more costly than the other.
As they say, when the punishment is less than the profit, it’s not a punishment, it’s a business expense
Ultimately, laws can only be judged on their ability to create outcomes. This one has failed miserably
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And you don’t seem to be listening to people who are telling you that the law doesn’t have to be draconian to cost people their lives.
If some number of hospitals conclude that the cost of letting people die and settling wrongful death cases is lower than the cost of defending patients’ rights to an abortion under their specific circumstances, then those hospitals will set policy that prohibits providing those abortions. Because they are profit-driven, not charities (a separate but related problem)
I will say it again: if the cost is less than the profit, it’s not a punishment, it’s a business expense. Put another way, if actually breaking law A costs less than defending accusations of breaking law B, they will break law A every time.
I’m really tired of trying to explain to people that laws and politics do not exist in a bubble.
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A) You hope it will. In the meantime, we continue to see cases of people being in danger or even dying.
B) Good for you that you can hand-wave away other people’s lives and safety as just a temporary bump in the road.
Your callousness is disconcerting, to say the least, and I’m done with this conversation now because I can’t teach you to stop looking at people as statistics.
Removed by mod
I’ll come back for one last comment to make this clear:
It is never, EVER acceptable to force someone to use their body to save the life of another. Ever. CORPSES have more rights than that (you have to volunteer to be a donor before death).
You want women to have fewer rights than corpses?
And that’s without even arguing whether a clump of cells that can’t survive on its own is even considered a life.
You can think someone sucks for having an abortion, and we can discuss what happens when a fetus could possible be viable on its own. But bodily autonomy is non-negotiable. If someone says “disconnect me from the thing attached to my body” you fucking do it. End of story. Call them horrible, callous, a sinner, whatever you want. But you do not force people to use their body as an incubator against their will.
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I’ve already quoted from that exact link.
From link you were talking about:
“At the time of the discussion, Farmer was medically stable, with some vaginal bleeding that was not heavy. “Therefore contrary to the most appropriate management based (sic) my medical opinion, due to the legal language of MO law, we are unable to offer induction of labor at this time,” the report quotes the specialist as saying.”
Again, she was stable at the time. The law required that they not perform an abortion.
A political official saying something is not the law. Filling a lawsuit is not the law.
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The doctors said she wasn’t in immediate danger.
You presented it as a law being broken. The only law broken would have been if doctors performed the abortion early because she voted to make it illegal.
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“At risk” isn’t an immediate threat. Having high blood pressure makes you, “at risk.” That’s not the same as having a heart attack which is an immediate threat to your life.
The law only allows abortion under immediate threat.
She wanted an early abortion because it was the safe option. But the law precludes proactive healthcare.
Removed by mod