I can’t use them because I can’t convince anybody to switch with me. I talk to most people on discord and I’d rather move to using Matrix, but I can’t convince any of my friends or family or anyone I know to use anything else.
I use XMPP whenever possible. Requires many fewer resources to run on just about any hardware & I can hand out accounts if needed.
I don’t care for the centralized or de facto centralized alternatives. I regret along with my uncle convincing family onto Signal several years ago.
My best friends and I switched from WhatsApp to Signal after the period that Facebook agreed not to make changes to WhatsApp went up. Other people were just sheer annoyance
Most of my communications with friends used to be on Instagram and discord. Discord was easy to get rid of because I kept having issues with notifications on it and told my friends that and eventually they got the message when I just didn’t receive/reply to anything that they sent me.
Instagram was a lot harder to get rid of. It’s a lot easier to pressure people in person than online. I deleted Instagram and told my friends that they could get in touch with me on signal. Initially they were contacting me on SMS, but I used social pressure with my converted friends to get the others on it by making a group chat on signal and constantly referencing conversations on there. Fear of missing out is a big motivator to get people to switch.
Another thing that I did was empathize the features of signal over SMS. I talked about things like being able to see when people are typing, read receipts, profile pictures, stickers, etc. Obviously my main motivation is for security, but a lot of people automatically bristle and have the usual “i don’t have anything to hide” talking points so it’s been easier to use those other approaches. With the results of the recent US election it’s been easier to convince people to make the switch, though.
I got my family to switch to Signal a while ago after a high profile data harvesting scandal with WhatsApp. Some were looking at telegram and I showed them how that had dogshit security by just finding another high profile case.
People like to be able to send documents, bank numbers, etc. with ease. Remind them that’s not really possible with SMS or WhatsApp or whatever. (Technically Signal still is centralized and is vulnerable to shenanigans, but the fact that it’s open source and truly E2EE mitigate that. And has the least friction of all the options.)
I won’t use anything other popular other than signal. There are some other cool apps like simplex behind for but I keep that for my enthusiasts out there.
People who don’t want to keep in touch and still use WhatsApp despite WhatsApp using the signal protocol make me wonder how much they want to keep in touch with me and how much they understand their tools and devices.
I also wonder what other bullshit apps they use as well but won’t install signal.
Luckily I have friends and family who indeed do want to stay in touch and who also recognize the implications of using questionable software. I keep them close.
None of the alternatives are good enough yet. Either the UX is bad, or they are missing important features, or both in most cases. There is too much focus on privacy and encryption and not enough on being easy to use, and having the features people are used to.
Asking friends on Discord to switch to Matrix which is missing most of the features and bots they are used to is not going to work out. Same for Telegram to Signal or Matrix when they’re used to group chats, channels, stickers, bots to handle moderation of new users, polls, forwarding of messages, stories, and so on.
None of the Discord ‘alternatives’ that come up seem to support game streaming with low latency, some don’t even have voice rooms yet, they’re just a text chat with a meeting room feature tacked on.
Mumble is perfectly fine for low-latency VoIP for gaming—I think it was the first to even use the Opus codec everyone uses now. Mumble uses a ton less resources than an Electron app. You will want your main chat on another protocol, but this is hardly a barrier.
When a colleague or new friend asks me to exchange contacts, I offer them the option to be part of my “main phone club” by getting Signal, Wire, or Element/Matrix.
I have a separate phone to handle SMS and Whatsapp. That covers 99% of cases, if they want something esoteric like Instagram/Snapchat/iMessage, then that’s too bad. I’ll turn off Airplane mode and check this secondary phone when I’m seated and comfortable like during my lunch break or when I get home. If, say, Johnny is running an event and needs me to text back whenever from 10 to 12, then I’ll generally leave my phone on for that time period. If there’s something sensitive but not particularly urgent, I’ll save it for the next time we meet in person.
If someone wants to message me at any random time of the day without prior notice and have a quick response back, they’ll have to join my main phone club.
I started donating to signal and told the family that they have to use it now otherwise it would be waste of money. And everyone switched immediately.
I’m running several opensource alternatives for clients (rocketchat, prosody, matrix) and I’ve transitioned privately from telegram and XMPP to matrix. the pushback from users is immense, they find every possible reason and excuse to stick with the messengers they’re used to and use “the new stuff” for the bare minimum.
privately it’s
easyeasier, that’s the only way you can get ahold of me, so if you need/want me, that’s where I am at. for a short while tried to make it work with signal, but a) the phone number thing is a deal breaker (usernames get me only halfway there) and b) I switch and use multiple devices often and that thing is downright hostile towards people who own/use > 2 devices.bear in mind, I’m in a dictatorial position. they have to do what I say and even with that, it’s an uphill battle. it doesn’t help that the stuff they’re now forced to use has subpar to downright dogshit UX.
the new, shiny, superawesome, superfast element x… is crap. I thought Signal was crap - this is another level. I don’t mean for me, it’s crap from the point of casual users, they are coming from the super polished world of telegram and imessage and twitter and friends and everything about this is off-putting. a lot of them need help setting this up, especially if it’s a multi-device scenario.
the immediate future looks bleak and I don’t see an important development on the horizon that would change any of this. but, that’s how telegram spread, early adopters switching to it and promoting it and dragging normies along. let’s hope for a repeat.
I bought everyone in my family a drink to get them to use Signal. Worked great and we’re still on it.
Don’t bother trying to sell people on privacy etc, for the most part. Show them Giphy integration, stickers, Stories, etc and show them that it’s fun. Signal has done great work there, in making it “noob-friendly”
The number of times my family complains about signal not having polls…
Seems like a lot of people want that too, so hopefully they’ll add it soon
I wish it had tenor instead. Giphy seems to really lack content, I never find what I’m searching for
Use whatever you use now less and less and when they ask why u late just claim ur discord app was bugging or u were “talking to ur friends” on element.
I’ve tried Signal, Session, Matrix and SimpleX and the most convenient one is Signal. Some will refuse to switch, some, the closest people to you, will agree but probably just for you, unless they see an interest in signal themselves
For WhatsApp users: I’m saying that they leak all the contacts to Meta/Facebook and use it for advertising and tracking, + sending to the US gov because we all know they share data
For discord users: they’re a bit known for not deleting things, and backed by Tencent (if I recall correctly) they could have a reason to start using messages for advertising or similar. They’re already using game activity data to push ads (or quests as they’re called). Based in the US so also probably leaks to the gov.
But most importantantly: I just ask if they’re really to have all their messages, and especially their private messages leaked to the public in case they get hacked. Including all images sent in PMs, and having those analyzed by some other companies as well (often for CP, but still, I’m not really ok with that). Some will say that they’re not, in this case alright, go switch to Signal! Some will say they are okay with it, and tbh they’re probably lying or underestimating the risks and the impact.
Discord is alright, but please, or all sensitive messages, please switch to an encrypted messenger.
I use Matrix with bridges to Signal, WhatsApp, Telegram and Slack.
That means a single app that I can communicate on multiple platforms with.
My main conversations happen natively on Matrix but can also talk to “normies” on any of the others.
This is my dream setup for messaging as well. My problem is that I would not trust 3rd parties to host this setup, but I also have not gotten around to setting it up myself lol.
Isn’t simpleX the new kid on the block? Or Session?
My issue with simplex is the centralization. Yes you can self host the servers and point the app to that. But honestly almost no one will change defaults led alone setup a whole server for it.
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema and don’t use anything else.
My thought process was - if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with.
The 3 people that were most important in my life at that point got the app immediately.
After over a decade with threema I now have over 40 contacts there, mostly friends, some colleagues, multiple hobby centric groups etc.
I guess just start and don’t compromise and be patient
This is pretty much exactly what I did. I said I will be using signal, and if you want to stay in contact with me, that’s how you will do it, because I will not reply to anything else.
Same. Works perfectly with family
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema
if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with
So if someone said you have to use their messagee of choice - Signal, Whatsapp, Matrix, FB Messager, Discord - you’d have no problem meeting them there because it’s effortless, yeah?
You left out two important real world aspects from your thought experiment.
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one person cares about a specific aspect of the messenger - privacy - and the other doesn’t care, they are just on whatever their peers told them to be on. So if their messenger happens to have the aspect I care about I’ll do it. Since they don’t have any such criteria I expect them to do it as well.
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If that person is important enough for me and doesn’t budge I’ll call or E-Mail them. Which is less private than an e2ee messenger, but more private than data harvesting companies.
Exactly this. I use Signal for people close to me and SMS or Email for those who don’t use signal, who I don’t have coversations with often anyways. Dispite it’s many, many flaws, I will use SMS before I use a Meta messenger.
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Me too. My Fam is on Signal now.
