she/her - hammer/sickle - state/revolution
Migrating to lemm.ee
This is not true. Anyone that clicks anything remotely socialist immediately gets fed with the completely opposite, gommunism no food and 100gorillionbillion deaths propaganda. It immediately tries to lead people to the opposite.
I really can’t agree with you though that all those sources are from the Falun Gong
I can connect all of your sources to an obsession with Falun Gong incredibly easily.
First link: Google the author, Ruth Ingram. This is a fake name used to spread literally nothing but organ harvesting content that ALL mentions Falun Gong.
Second link: Wang Guoqi’s claim is solely about Falun Gong.
Third link: Is just a wikipedia page so we should be tossing this out anyway. Several citations are Falun Gong though.
Fourth link: Relies mainly on presenting ChinaTribunal as a legitimate court tribunal by real courts when it is in fact a propaganda outlet. This “independent tribunal” gets presented as such and its conclusion is dadadadadadadaaaaa - that Falun Gong members are the primary source of organs that China harvests. It then vaguely connects this to Uighurs later in the article but offers literally zero evidence, only accusations.
You will not find anything on this topic that you can disconnect from Falun Gong. It is impossible because Falun Gong is the source of it. I can stick around and enjoy going down this rabbit hole with you though if you want to try, I am quite happy to be a wall you bounce things off, it’s pretty crazy.
You’re missing the point. It’s made up by Falun Gong. Because a core component of their uhh… Recruitment… Is making up myths like this that make it look like the Chinese government confirms that following Falun Gong makes you healthier because they want to harvest their healthy healthy top grade organs.
Yes I’m quite aware that some instances are full of authoritarians that like to restrict the speech of any political opposition to their left. Actually engaging with any arguments we make ends quite badly for you when you cite the CIA and its propaganda while we cite actual primary sources so you simply take the authoritarian position of eliminating left wing speech instead. An action Mccarthy would be proud of.
Stop getting your information from the CIA. Duh.
Falun Gong is a cult that believes that following their religion makes your body physically healthier because it aligns the metaphysical energies of your body in a special way. This they say means they have the juciest most bestest organs that the Chinese government wants because they’re the BEST GOD DAMN ORGANS around, which is why they actively spread this myth. All of your above sources cite the Falun Gong, or claim that it happened to the Falun Gong such as in your second link:
“Usually these Falun Gong practitioners were injected with a shot to cause heart failure. During the process these people would be pushed into operating rooms to have their organs removed,”
I strongly urge you to watch this video. It is not a pro-china source, it is a liberal source. I think you might come away from it with many questions and when you start realising that literally every single one of these is coming from, or about, or linked to falun gong in some way it becomes impossible to ignore what the source is.
And if you did any research whatsoever
Of the two of us I am the only one that has done any research at all. As I am the only one who bothered to see what language the US uses for its own media outlet.
Your research consists of looking up propaganda sites that suit you, and parroting whatever they say regardless of any critical thought that might suggest they’re not reliable. You don’t think for yourself. At all. All you do is defer all of your thinking to these ““sources”” when they’re not primary sources and are literally obviously spouting easily falsifiable shit.
Mate I don’t know if you’ve ever bothered to watch visits to NK but they’re not quite what you seem to think they are. There is a considerable amount of things that people do there, the downside being that they are all supervised.
Like, just watch some? You’re perfectly happy to swallow everything from literal propaganda outlets but you’re unwilling to actually watch first hand accounts of any visitors? You are only willing to consume things filtered through a media lens? Why?
“These people” have actually visited. You have not. You’re not even ALLOWED to visit because your government makes it illegal to. Wtf is up with that? And you’re the one that thinks you have more information than people who are not prevented from visiting and making their own minds up first hand?
The only edgelord here is the person that is vehemently calling VOA fair and unbiased while simultaneously calling the first hand accounts of actual real visitors to the country propaganda. You’re out of your mind. You’re the most propagandised person I have ever had the displeasure of talking to actually.
Ah yes the propaganda outlet started for the purposes of propaganda and staffed with people all doing the job of propaganda has surely not continued to employ people ideologically aligned with performing propaganda ever since! Nooooooo. Somewhere along the line must have fired every single member of staff and built a reputable new outlet from the top down. Surely!
To quote a reagan fuckhead - “Personnel is policy”.
Ultimately its current reputation of journalistic objectivity does not depend on nearly century-old records but on what we can see today; dedicated journalists and accurate reporting.
You are not immune to propaganda. And you should seriously take a moment to read the shit you are writing and ask yourself how much of it is you repeating propaganda. You sound like you’re literally writing PR copy.
Is people travelling there and getting first hand actual proof enough for you?
Voice of America was put under the command of the USIA (US Information Agency) whose job was literally propaganda.
The US archives state the following:
306.2 Records of the International Information Administration (Department of State) 1945-53
History: Office of the Coordinator of Information established as an independent agency by Presidential order, July 11, 1941, to collect and analyze information bearing upon national security. Foreign Information Service established within OCOI to oversee shortwave propaganda broadcasts (Voice of America, VOA),
https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/306.html
I think that definitively proves you wrong.
Will this make you do one ounce of self-criticism or re-evaluate how you view the world? I sincerely doubt it.
I have no interest in comparing stalin to putin because that’s not a take I agree with. But this ribbentrop shit has to be corrected.
The way you’re presenting molotov-ribbentrop is historical revisionism. The soviets did absolutely everything they could to try and convince France and the UK to take action against Hitler but they were hoping Hitler would attack the USSR.
The ACTUAL historic timeline is like this:
1: The United States Bourgeoisie bankrolled the rise of fascism in Europe.
2: The bourgeois leaders of England, France, Poland, Finland and other Western European nations either ignored, enabled, or appeased Hitler’s worst behavior in the buildup to WW2.
3: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, England in particular, pushed for disastrous bilateral security arrangements which created a domino effect leading to war, while ignoring the USSR’s suggestion of collective, anti-fascist security arrangements.
4: The bourgeois leaders of these countries pursued a policy not of containing fascist aggression, but of diplomatically isolating the USSR, in the hopes that Hitler would go East and carry out an anti-communist genocide on their behalf.
5: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, having ignored or stalled collective security proposals from the USSR, actively made bilateral non-aggression pacts with Hitler before Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed, making the USSR the last in a long line of nations to sign non-aggression pacts with Hitler, after the USSR’s collective security proposals fell through.
6: The USSR only signed Molotov-Ribbentrop to buy time. The USSR only invaded East Poland to prevent a German front from forming right at the Soviet border. This is because attempts to make mutual security arrangements with Poland fell through. The Soviets only moved into the region after the existing government had literally fled the country, leaving it ungoverned. 2 million jews in eastern poland were saved from the nazis by this action.
7: The USSR tried to purchase a strategic corridor of land from Finland that the nazis could easily use to invade the USSR. The USSR not only wanted to legally purchase this land from Finland, but to trade Finland more acres of land in exchange. i.e. an asymmetrical trade that would have ultimately benefited Finland. Finland refused because the fascist leadership of Finland wanted to see Germany invade the USSR through this strategic corridor. This led directly to the Winter War. The Finnish lost the winter war but used their intelligence that they gathered during it to collaborate with the nazis.
8: When the North Atlantic allies finally teamed up with USSR after their strategy of appeasing Hitler backfired, they immediately attempted to make asymmetrical security arrangements that would have obligated the USSR to commit far more troops and resources to the war than any other ally, essentially using the USSR as a shield against the very fascist powers they had spent the better part of a decade appeasing. The British in particular kept stalling on arrangements and pretending to be confused.
9: When the war was over the North Atlantic allies, led by the USA, who came out of the war richer than any other country on Earth, immediately committed to rehabilitating nazis, blaming the USSR, who was decimated by the war, for causing the war, and created NATO to begin encircling the USSR, 6 years before the creation of the Warsaw pact.
10: The North Atlantic allies immediately set to using the Marshall plan to rebuild the fascist German, Italian, and Japanese economies, indebting them to the United States, and orienting them towards anti-communist policy.
11: The North Atlantic allies to tried to use the Marshall plan as a proto-IMF to privatize and deregulate the economy of the war-torn USSR, and open it up to foreign capital. That the USSR rejected this was framed as aggression and used as a justification for beginning the cold war.
But hey, don’t just take my word for it, or this rough outline of what is contained in well regarded books (I implore you to read some). How about we read Albert Einstein’s words spoken at the time these events actually occurred?
A lot to unpack in this speech but the basics of what Einstein says are:
The USSR made all efforts to stop the war happening.
The western powers(UK, France, US, etc) shut the USSR out of European discussions and betrayed Czechoslovakia.
Molotov-Ribbentrop was an unhappy last resort that they were driven to, that the western powers were attempting to drive the nazis into attacking the USSR and that’s why they would not help the USSR stop them.
The USSR supported everyone while the other powers (UK, France, US, etc) strengthened the nazis and Japanese.
The appointment of Hitler as Germany’s chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as “collective security” and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan’s war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe.
I hate this shit. Just make darkmode the default.
Accepting that is counterproductive to making Lemmy a worthwhile space that will continue existing though.
Keeping people around requires being more than just “not reddit”. It requires Lemmy to be a community of people that actually create value in and of themselves. Until they reject just being a secondary reddit and be lemmy the space will not mature and come into its own. It will remain a space that just takes content from reddit and rehosts it, one that follows rather than leads.
Growth reaches a saturation point and now they have to cannibalise every single thing in order to continue growth (in company values). This comes at the expense of product quality for the person using it but that’s fine if you have no competition because everything is a monopoly.
The capitalist system is the problem. The system will ALWAYS reach this endpoint for as long as it is a system that demands infinite growth.
I think the nationalist brainworms of americans do most of the heavy lifting, combined with the fact liberals are completely without principles. It’s not dissimilar to how they’ll happily use homophobia to attack Republicans or whoever the current international villain is simply because “they’re bad so it’s ok”. This same lack of principles applies to history too, which they will rewrite to suit their nationalist goals at any time with no principles or scruples. The core issue is nationalism. Anyone you can deprogram and change into an internationalist stops all of this.
This is not uncommon unfortunately. It’s actually gotten significantly worse in the last 5 years or so, like 15 years ago it was just taken as fact by literally everybody that pretty much everything in the cold war was bullshit. But with the rising anti-russia sentiment and obviously the war it’s like literally everything from that period is now just taken as fact. It’s wild. Even the extremely easy to disprove stuff like this.
EDIT: I feel like this user is a bot given how it’s gone and responded so many times below and then mixed up the conversations elsewhere.
I misspoke, it’s not 20million it’s 9million for specifically hunger. The 20million figure I used here comes from adding in clean water and curable disease. It’s still an extremely basic and charitable figure for the extremely preventable deaths that occur under capitalism.
If the CIA’s own declassified internal documents refuting the cold war propaganda that you are spouting isn’t enough for you then nothing ever will be. You’re repeating the cold war propaganda line, I’m showing you that the CIA’s own documents at the time refute it, because obviously internally you can’t lie to yourselves about the matter even if you are doing propaganda publicly about it. You don’t want to acknowledge or absorb it because it would mean having to self-crit and readjust an ideological position you’re committed to.
on the other hand nobody’s starving.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf
CIA’s own declassified documents a good enough source for you?
I also contest the “nobody’s starving” point you seem to be making. A hundred million people die every 5 years to starvation under capitalism.
Who gives a fuck? The car isn’t decorated for you it’s decorated for its owner. Same goes with how a person chooses to dress or decorate their body.
Ultimately just another form of “your body exists for my enjoyment”.